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SimAirline.net - Message Boards • View topic - Hong Kong Virtual Opens

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 22 Aug 2007, 13:32 
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Hello all,

I am new hire here at SimAirline.net and I look forward to flying with this group.

What sold me on joining this VA is the addition of Cathay and Dragonair to create "Hong Kong Virtual". I am a huge CX fan and the only other VA that offers a mainline CX and HDA operation has turned me off. Too many children running around (in terms of maturity not age). From what I see in this VA so far I like the professionalism and I especially like the Latitudes magazine. Very well done considering its an all-volunteer product.

I do have a question about Hong Kong Virtual which is the airline I plan to fly the most flights for. I know HKV is currently limited to just Swire Group-owned airlines (CX and HDA). Has there been any though of adding the other Hong Kong- based carriers to this VA? Specifically, I am talking about Oasis Hong Kong, the B747 long-haul budget carrier, and Hong Kong Express, the regional B737 carrier. These two airlines are not too big and would compliment CX and HDA flights. Just curious.

Glad to be here!


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PostPosted: 22 Aug 2007, 13:35 
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Welcome! To answer your question, we did consider adding CR Airways, and others to HKV, however this was scrapped, and we decided to use only CX an KA. Mainly because KA may as well be the domestic version of CX. They fit together very well in both the sim and real life.

Again welcome, and if you have any further questions, feel free to ask! :wink:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 22 Aug 2007, 13:52 
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Thanks for the reply, Aaron.

CX and KA offer plenty of good flights to choose from so HKV should be hummin' nonetheless! This combined airline makes so much sense. Great stuff!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 22 Aug 2007, 13:57 
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Casey,

My apology. I saw Aaron's name in my GMAIL autoreply and automatically thought the reply was from him.

Looking forward to working with you at HKV.

Rick


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PostPosted: 22 Aug 2007, 16:06 
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Covert53 wrote:
Casey,

My apology. I saw Aaron's name in my GMAIL autoreply and automatically thought the reply was from him.

Looking forward to working with you at HKV.

Rick


Haha, no problem. Good to have you around.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 22 Aug 2007, 17:58 
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IMO why didnt you guys just have the two seperate airlines? They are two seperate airlines and therefore should HAVE been two seperate here as well.

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PostPosted: 22 Aug 2007, 18:54 
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Cathay Pacific doesn't like VAs so we did Hong Kong Virtual to get around that little snag.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 22 Aug 2007, 20:56 
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Ah, so do they still know that there is one?

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PostPosted: 22 Aug 2007, 21:14 
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I don't know but it was a clever way to get around their opposition to VAs.

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PostPosted: 22 Aug 2007, 21:34 
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Could we have done that with Air Berlin?

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PostPosted: 22 Aug 2007, 21:39 
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oh i see. Making it something different rather than its own name for privacys sake. Now i see.

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PostPosted: 22 Aug 2007, 21:53 
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So do Cathay know we are doing this or haven't they spoyyed it yet?

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PostPosted: 22 Aug 2007, 21:54 
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Means we get two airlines for the price of one.

Cathey can't say anything, we don't use their name.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 22 Aug 2007, 21:55 
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Ah, clever. So did we have to write to airlines before this to gain permission, or was it just a case of putting the VA online and see if it gets any attention from the airline?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 22 Aug 2007, 21:58 
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sanins192 wrote:
Could we have done that with Air Berlin?


I see your point (Berlin Virtual?) but Air Berlin is structured differently with its Round-Robin network, and so it would make more sense to call it "Germany Virtual," but then you hit the snags that there are a TON of others based there (Lufthansa etc.). Since Cathay/Dragonair are the flag carriers, the largest presence, and the only airlines (save the two others that have been mentioned, which aren't well known outside Asia) based in HK, it works there. The plan for now is to open all others we have planned, then add a Germany-based VA (Lufthansa has been ruled out) to fill the gap.

The reason we did HK was so we could operate a Cathay VA without any reason for them to legally attack us (which they do, and viciously at that). If I'm not mistaken, Dragonair was still an independent airline at the time we were making the plans, and because its routes compliment Cathay's immensely with hardly any duplicates (as has been mentioned, they were the short-haul Cathay in essence) it seemed logical to integrate the two.

Wow... I rambled quite a bit there. I hope at least some of that made sense and helped clear things up a bit.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 22 Aug 2007, 22:37 
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A main reason for the HKV branding is as others said, legal. Plus you do get 2 airlines in 1.

Could CX order all logo visible images removed? Probably. In fact, CO, DL, NW, VS, and AC all could as well. Does this mean they will? Probably not unless they have a good and logical reason to. Some airlines tend to care more about logo/image useage than others. It just depends, but it's a right they have...

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 22 Aug 2007, 23:04 
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Quote:
Could CX order all logo visible images removed? Probably. In fact, CO, DL, NW, VS, and AC all could as well. Does this mean they will? Probably not unless they have a good and logical reason to. Some airlines tend to care more about logo/image useage than others. It just depends, but it's a right they have...


Cathay or any other airline, or any other business in the U.S. cannot "order" a private citizen, which is what any VA is, or any other business to stop using trademarks and brands. Just like we cannot order someone else to do something within any legal standing. If SimAirline.net was to use CX marks and brands they simply cannot "force" us to stop using them. What a company does is send out there lawyers with their nasty attitudes and their "cease and desist" letters threatening lawsuits. And, a lawsuit would only be successful if they can demonstrate that a VA's use of trademarks "harmed" them in some way, which we obviously are not doing. To harm them would have to occur in the business arena not the flight sim world. They know this so they send out their lawyers and more often than not people see them coming and stop because they don't need the headache. But the dirty little secret in U.S. law is that the plaintiff (the airline) would have to sue the defendant (a VA like us), engage in a timely, costly, lawsuit, and then prove they have been harmed. Good luck proving that. And then only a judge can "order" a VA to cease and desist.

When you go international, it gets even more unlikely they can do anything.

It still boggles my mind when I hear real airlines fighting the VAs since are "celebrating" them, not the opposite. In fact, some VAs have been known to get endorsed by their real world counterpart and even let them use server space (United-Virtual). Go figure


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 23 Aug 2007, 01:23 
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Covert53 wrote:
Cathay or any other airline, or any other business in the U.S. cannot "order" a private citizen, which is what any VA is, or any other business to stop using trademarks and brands.


Ahh, but when you have rights reserved for name, logo and everything else along with those, you basically HAVE the authority to order to shut down the organization.

But, the airlines know that their logos aren't being used in a bad way, but by using their name and logo, and then making an airline, it creates confusion as people may think that the virtual airline website IS the real website.

If CO decided that it doesn't want anyone using its logos without permission, CO can order CO virtual and other CO VA websites out there to be shut down. Why? They have rights for the name and logo and are being used without their consent.

HKV just so happens to go through a loophole since the site doesn't mention that they are CX and KA, but rather a name operating CX and KA flights.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 23 Aug 2007, 02:07 
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Yep, Dennis pretty much hit the nail on the head.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 23 Aug 2007, 03:22 
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Ah, don't you just love loopholes ! :lol:

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