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AF447 Rio De Janerio - Paris A330-200 missing over Atlantic

Posted: 01 Jun 2009, 13:30
by Anuj
Just seeing it on the news here, AF477 has gone missing over the Atlantic ocean.

http://newsbizarre.com/2009/06/air-fran ... -from.html
An Air France passenger jet Airbus A330 , believed to be Air France flight 447, Air France Flight 447 Rio de Janeiro - Paris with 216 people and 12 crew on board has disappeared off radar, reports say.

The Air France Airbus passenger jet from Rio de Janerio to Paris Charles-de-Gaulle disappeared from radar well into it's 11 hour journey, sources said .

"The plane was expected in Paris at 11:10 a.m. (0910 GMT)," an Air France spokeswoman said

Air France says AF 477 experienced severe turbulance for 15 minutes before sending out a message that it had some sort of short circut electrical fault.

Brazil had sent its Air Force jets to search for any debris from Air France Flight 477, off the nations northern coast.

Reuters says it has contacted the Brazilian Air Force who says they lost contact with Air France Flight 447 at 0133 GMT.

French media were saying it was probable that Air France Flight 477 was struck by lightning during its flight.

Severe weather pattern near where Air France Flight 447 may have been when it fell off radar screens in Africa/South America.

A report via French TV is said to confirm that an Air France Flight 447 was an Airbus A330-200, flight 447 from Brazil carrying 216 passengers and 12 crew. The Airbus A330-200 was very new and had been with Air France since April 2005.

Air France 447 travelled up to 3 and a half hours before it was lost from radar, sources say. NASA images showed bad weather along the path of Flight 447.

If you have family and friends who were flying Air France Flight 447, media says that you are advised to contact the Crisis Center at Charles de Gaulle Airport for info.

International hot line is +33-157-02-10-55
Very Sad.. :(

My prayers will all the families.

Re: AF477 Rio De Janerio - Paris A330-200 missing over Atlantic

Posted: 01 Jun 2009, 13:50
by Anuj
I'm sorry, its AF447 not 477

Re: AF477 Rio De Janerio - Paris A330-200 missing over Atlantic

Posted: 01 Jun 2009, 13:55
by Anuj
More info : No more contact since Brazilian coasts. Last ACARS message sent was "Severe turbulence". All ACARS messages sent to the aircraft since then did not reach the aircraft.

The Aircraft is F-GZCP.

Re: AF477 Rio De Janerio - Paris A330-200 missing over Atlantic

Posted: 01 Jun 2009, 14:13
by DMM200
Yeah, I heard about this, it doesn't seem normal at all.
Timeline of Flight AF 447

Details are emerging of the events leading up to the disappearance of an Air France flight from Brazil to France in the early hours of Monday.

Flight AF 447 left Rio de Janeiro, bound for Paris, at 1900 local time (2200 GMT) on Sunday 31 May.

The aircraft in question, an Airbus A330-200 with registration F-GZCP, had been in operation since April 2005.

Shortly after the aircraft's scheduled arrival time in Paris of 1110 local time (0910 GMT), it was announced that the flight was missing.

Here is what is known so far:

2200 GMT, Sunday 31 May: AF 447 takes off from Rio de Janeiro's Galeao International Airport, heading for Paris Charles de Gaulle.

0133 GMT, Monday 1 June: Last radar contact with flight AF 447, according to the Brazilian air force. The jet had just passed the Fernando de Noronha islands, about 350 km (217 miles) off the coast of Brazil.


0200 GMT: The aircraft crossed through a "thunderous zone with strong turbulence" according to an Air France statement.

0214 GMT: According to the airline, an automated message was received indicating an "electrical circuit malfunction" on board.

0910 GMT: Aircraft was due to land at Paris Charles de Gaulle airport.

0935 GMT: Paris airport officials announce that flight AF 447 is missing.

1017 GMT: Brazil's air force confirms a search and rescue operation is under way near the Brazilian island of Fernando de Noronha.

1036 GMT: Air France confirms it is "without news" from the aircraft.

1116 GMT: Senior French minister Jean-Louis Borloo says the plane would have run out of fuel by this point, and adds: "We must now envisage the most tragic scenario." He rules out a hijacking.

1140 GMT: Brazil's air force says flight AF 447 was "well advanced" over the Atlantic Ocean when it went missing.

1142 GMT: Air France confirms it received a message about an electrical fault from the aircraft.

1213 GMT: Air France suggests the electrical fault was probably caused by the plane suffering a lightning strike.

Re: AF477 Rio De Janerio - Paris A330-200 missing over Atlantic

Posted: 01 Jun 2009, 15:10
by Delta320
Theories are

1. total electrical fail
2. Lightning Strike
3. Turbulence
4. Terrorist Attack

My thoughts and prayers with all involved.

Re: AF477 Rio De Janerio - Paris A330-200 missing over Atlantic

Posted: 01 Jun 2009, 15:24
by sanins192
This is very bad news. :( I have to disagree with number 4 ^^. In most of the news stories it says that terrorist attacks have been ruled out.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8076848.stm

Re: AF477 Rio De Janerio - Paris A330-200 missing over Atlantic

Posted: 01 Jun 2009, 15:30
by alma343
Wonder i f they are still ok

Re: AF477 Rio De Janerio - Paris A330-200 missing over Atlantic

Posted: 01 Jun 2009, 15:49
by Delta320
sanins192 wrote:This is very bad news. :( I have to disagree with number 4 ^^. In most of the news stories it says that terrorist attacks have been ruled out.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8076848.stm
Oh agreed I don't think it was #4 either. I think there was an electrical failure. The plane is out of fuel by now so we have to wait and see.

Re: AF447 Rio De Janerio - Paris A330-200 missing over Atlantic

Posted: 01 Jun 2009, 16:39
by Tom Alder
Very sad, my prayers are with their loved ones... :(

Re: AF447 Rio De Janerio - Paris A330-200 missing over Atlantic

Posted: 01 Jun 2009, 17:01
by kingsak
:cry: May all our prayers be with those on-board as well as their families.

Re: AF447 Rio De Janerio - Paris A330-200 missing over Atlantic

Posted: 01 Jun 2009, 20:14
by Dennis
It was most likely a lightning strike, and not just ANY lightning strike, but a positive lightning strike. They reported strong turbulence and a short circuit before communication ceased. That type of activity is typically found in thunderstorms (through which it was flying at the time).

BTW: the difference between positive lightning and regular (negative) lightning is the place where it originates and the amount of energy it contains. I could explain it later if anyone wants to learn more.

Re: AF447 Rio De Janerio - Paris A330-200 missing over Atlantic

Posted: 01 Jun 2009, 20:56
by FJ flyer
Dennis wrote:It was most likely a lightning strike, and not just ANY lightning strike, but a positive lightning strike. They reported strong turbulence and a short circuit before communication ceased. That type of activity is typically found in thunderstorms (through which it was flying at the time).

BTW: the difference between positive lightning and regular (negative) lightning is the place where it originates and the amount of energy it contains. I could explain it later if anyone wants to learn more.
Remember though, that having an electrical failure shouldn't take down a A330-200, especially when the aircraft is only three years old. I find it some what hard to believe that in this day and age a lightning strike (Over a well known turbulent area) can bring down an airliner.

Check out this: http://weather.msfc.nasa.gov/GOES/goeseastfullir.html

Re: AF447 Rio De Janerio - Paris A330-200 missing over Atlantic

Posted: 01 Jun 2009, 21:19
by rgflores
A terrible tragedy, indeed. Most of passengers were brazilian and french. My deepest condolences to families.
It´s very controversial the causes of crash. CNN just heard an opinion´s analyst that said he doubts a lightning could down the A332. Also, airliners cross this stormy weather zone everyday without any incident. There was not even a mayday call.
Searches are going on, however it´s very difficult to find the remains of the aircraft since the area of the probably disaster is very large.

Re: AF447 Rio De Janerio - Paris A330-200 missing over Atlantic

Posted: 01 Jun 2009, 21:40
by sanins192
I think it is a series of unlucky events that has led to the plane going missing. I do not think it was solely lightning, but a culmination of several problems where the chances of all the events happening together are extremely low.

Re: AF447 Rio De Janerio - Paris A330-200 missing over Atlantic

Posted: 01 Jun 2009, 21:46
by Dennis
FJ flyer wrote:
Dennis wrote:It was most likely a lightning strike, and not just ANY lightning strike, but a positive lightning strike. They reported strong turbulence and a short circuit before communication ceased. That type of activity is typically found in thunderstorms (through which it was flying at the time).

BTW: the difference between positive lightning and regular (negative) lightning is the place where it originates and the amount of energy it contains. I could explain it later if anyone wants to learn more.
Remember though, that having an electrical failure shouldn't take down a A330-200, especially when the aircraft is only three years old. I find it some what hard to believe that in this day and age a lightning strike (Over a well known turbulent area) can bring down an airliner.

Check out this: http://weather.msfc.nasa.gov/GOES/goeseastfullir.html
Ah, but positive lightning is not your ordinary lightning and current lightning safety measures may work with your typical lightning but there's no evidence that it works with positive lightning. Guess I'm gonna have to explain it after all:

Lightning originates from the difference of charges inside clouds and between clouds/ground. The base of the cloud is negatively charged while the tops are positively charged. Ground is considered to be neutral, though many times, it's also positive. When the negative charges meet the positive charges either on the ground or the top of the cloud a current develops and lightning is formed.

However, sometimes lightning does not follow the traditional -/+ connection and instead forms a +/+ connection. When this happens, positive lightning is formed. Positive lightning is said to be up to 10X stronger than regular lightning (why? I don't know.) and therefore is capable of strong damage. They are sometimes called bolts from the blue. You may be watching a thunderstorm that's quite far and if positive lightning forms, you might be in danger of being struck.

The discharge wicks on airplanes (at least in the US) are designed to work with regular lightning since it's more common. Lightning passes through the fuselage and exits through the wicks. However, since positive lightning was something discovered after wicks were invented, the effect of the wicks with positive lightning are unknown and believed to be insufficient.

PA214 was actually a victim of positive lightning when it crashed in the 60s, but was confirmed years later when in the 70s researchers confirmed two types of lightning.

Here's an image of positive lightning:
WOW

And a diagram of where it forms:
High

*catches breath* So...yeah.

Re: AF447 Rio De Janerio - Paris A330-200 missing over Atlantic

Posted: 02 Jun 2009, 04:42
by FJ flyer
OK, I gotcha.
sanins192 wrote:I think it is a series of unlucky events that has led to the plane going missing. I do not think it was solely lightning, but a culmination of several problems where the chances of all the events happening together are extremely low.
I agree, most airliners that crash usually occur when a number of problems are experienced.
According to the news on my cell phone a TAM pilot saw what he though were flames on the ocean around about the route the Air France aircraft took. So my theory is that there was a massive lightning stike that ignited 'something', maybe cut-off an electrical system or two (hence the automated electrical failure signal being sent out) then slowly ingulfed the aircraft.

Re: AF447 Rio De Janerio - Paris A330-200 missing over Atlantic

Posted: 02 Jun 2009, 12:36
by Dennis
FJ flyer wrote:So my theory is that there was a massive lightning strike that ignited 'something', maybe cut-off an electrical system or two (hence the automated electrical failure signal being sent out) then slowly engulfed the aircraft.
That's what I think happened too.

Re: AF447 Rio De Janerio - Paris A330-200 missing over Atlantic

Posted: 03 Jun 2009, 02:50
by Blackhawk
Looks like they found wreckage. They're saying there's no survivors.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/americas/ ... index.html

Re: AF447 Rio De Janerio - Paris A330-200 missing over Atlantic

Posted: 03 Jun 2009, 04:46
by RatherBFlyin
That is terrible news, but at least the aircraft has been located and they may be able to determine exactly what happened.

Re: AF447 Rio De Janerio - Paris A330-200 missing over Atlantic

Posted: 03 Jun 2009, 06:33
by Anuj
Wow, Thats really horrible news. :cry: